Gaited vs Ungaited... Reality Check

[sonshyne1]

I have recently decided to take up reining. At first I thought my Arab Nirvana could do it. Heck if Khemosabi could do it my horse surely could. He is smart, athletic and enjoys working. He is ok at it. Has an ok baby spin, an ok stop. Loves fast circles, hates slow circles and can fly his changes clean 90% of the time. He thinks cigars are the best fun in the world. But he is just not built do be competitive. He is going to be a nice dressage pony and an even nicer hunter. We will continue to play reining as it teaches him to use his butt and sit, but I don't see us hitting up NRHA any time soon..

So...I bought a horse that was made for the job. A reining bred QH. If for some reason she doesn't cut it we will go from there. Depending on how much I like her she will stay and do something else or she will move on. But seems I have a better chance of excelling in the sport on the right type of horse.

[Nitter_Pitter]

Gena, thanks for that post. You cleared a couple of issues up for me that I have/had with my gaited App.

He had a heck of a time learning to canter w/o bucking. He still does the almost-a-buck-but-not-quite thing once in a while but lots of circles, shoulder in, shoulder out (er, Dressage excersizes) helped him understand where his feet were and where I wanted them to go.

Also, he would not gait in saddle. He would only gait when he was nervous - then it was badly, with his neck ewe'd, head up, back hollow. I know sooooo many pleasure riders that piddle down the trail like this and think it's fine. I can't imagine that it's doing anything "good" for their horses back or gait.

[walkonaire]

Originally Posted by Nitter_Pitter

Also, he would not gait in saddle. He would only gait when he was nervous - then it was badly, with his neck ewe'd, head up, back hollow. I know sooooo many pleasure riders that piddle down the trail like this and think it's fine. I can't imagine that it's doing anything "good" for their horses back or gait.

Bob M calls that a 'high walk'... and if they're that ventroflexed and tense it is NOT a good way of going. You're absolutely correct! Looks flashy, but not good for the horse.

gena

[Sage]

Thanks Walkonaire and lovemysoda for the great links. They put a far different perspective on the abilities of our versatile gaited horses.

[perform]

Originally Posted by Nitter_Pitter

Also, he would not gait in saddle. He would only gait when he was nervous - then it was badly, with his neck ewe'd, head up, back hollow. I know sooooo many pleasure riders that piddle down the trail like this and think it's fine. I can't imagine that it's doing anything "good" for their horses back or gait.

I agree wholeheartedly about ventroflexed horses... of ALL breeds... this isn't something that only affects TWHs (et al), as Nitter Pitter points out.

And it's doing NOTHING GOOD for their backs, gaits, or temperament.

The horse in my signature demonstrates what I personally consider "good form" at the running walk for a barefooted, naturally gaited TWH...
Light in the bridle, flexed at the poll, soft overall, and with a nice, raised topline as he works... nice.

[KFisch]

Originally Posted by downsouth2

Wha about Pasos? Do we want them trotting? And why?

Absolutely as Walkonaire just said. Trotting helps build muscles and muscles help the horse move better and sronger. When I had my purebred Paso, he would trot at liberty in the paddock. Thankfully, never under saddle. = )

[lovemysoda]

Originally Posted by perform

I agree wholeheartedly about ventroflexed horses... of ALL breeds... this isn't something that only affects TWHs (et al), as Nitter Pitter points out.

And it's doing NOTHING GOOD for their backs, gaits, or temperament.

The horse in my signature demonstrates what I personally consider "good form" at the running walk for a barefooted, naturally gaited TWH...
Light in the bridle, flexed at the poll, soft overall, and with a nice, raised topline as he works... nice.

Ok, in your last post you said
"I don't understand why people complain so much about "pacey" TWHs...

THOSE are the ones with the best natural gait!
All you have to do is ride them correctly to get a perfect running walk."

I mean - I know you said you have been "professionally" training gaited horses for 15 years....so I am ASSUMING that you know that pacing is a ventroflexed gait and should be done sparingly and intermittentlly with dorsoflexed gaits to preserve a horses back.


Walkonaire - Liz Graves is AMAZING - I was blessed to be able to observe her clinic last year. Amazing, simply amazing!!! There is simply no other truth about gaited horses out there! well, maybe dr deb

[lovemysoda]

Originally Posted by KFisch

Absolutely as Walkonaire just said. Trotting helps build muscles and muscles help the horse move better and sronger. When I had my purebred Paso, he would trot at liberty in the paddock. Thankfully, never under saddle. = )

Amen! I am working on cleaner cues for transitions with my guy. Always work to be done on the human side- he so gets it, me ....I lag a bit

[jazzy29]

Originally Posted by lovemysoda

Walkonaire - Liz Graves is AMAZING - I was blessed to be able to observe her clinic last year. Amazing, simply amazing!!! There is simply no other truth about gaited horses out there! well, maybe dr deb

I'm flying up to Minnesota in early November to spend a week with Liz and Dave!!! Can't wait - well, I'm not too excited about Minnesota in November, but we had to wait until Liz was finished with clinics, etc. It's just a friend visit, not training or anything, but we should get some quality horse time. I'm just sorry she lost Bubba earlier this summer and I won't get to meet the grand gentleman.

[Bavaria]

Originally Posted by AlishaFL1

Ok, just an observation, (and I was pretty impressed with the video too) She had the Piaffe or was it Passage down and the Canter, Lead Changes and Canter turn around.. whatever it's call (BAVERIA HELP) haha but what about the other parts of the dressage test? I did distinguish an extension too but there was something missing from that test and I can't put my finger on it because I am not a dressage person either.. but I bet some of these other dressage people can.. like Baveria...... Ok I'll shut up about the video cause I clearly only know enough to get hit with bats..

....Ok.. sorry, go ahead and beat me up... ... I like it rough!

Next time I see you I'll make sure I will bring my clue bat with me and give it to you real good!
The "Passage" at the beginning was painful to watch for me. First, passage and piaffe are TROT related gaits, the horse was WALKING in the hind and trotting up front and was gaiting. In the passage, diagonal pair of legs move together, not lateral pairs!
He was way above the bit almost all the time, which hollowed his back, which is the OPPOSITE of what you want in dressage. It was just plain painful, this in NOT what a passage should look like.
The "extended trot" was a fail as well, because again, he didn't trot, he gaited. He was walking and gaiting in the hind again and trotting up front while being hallow and above the bit. So technically, he did not perform any trot or trot related work at all.
His canter depart was a mess. His canter itself was a little better, but way too much head bobbing and still a little hallow. Very mediocre work.
His piroutte had too much sideways drift and not enough sit back. Again mediocre work, considering the level of movements that are attempted.
The horse is overall stiff in his bending, and shouldn't be made to try to perform these high level movements. His lead changes were sort of ok, his extended canter was lacking all the impulsion, it was hard to even see what he was supposed to be doing.
His canter half pass was very, very sad. LESS then mediocre work! There's a REASON why we train LATERAL movements before highly collected work like pirouettes, piaffes and passages!
His last piroutte was a little better at the beginning, but he keeps falling apart when having to sit further back to finish the circle.
THOUGH I would like to add that his performance was miles above IP's. His canter work alone showed me that it quite possible to teach a gaited horse to canter (sort of) correctly.

Now, I don't have an issue with people that want to ride like this on their gaited horses. Not my thing, because the two examples I have seen just seem to having to work really hard at just getting these less then mediocre performances together, but, to each their own.
I just have an issue with you calling it DRESSAGE. I don't go out there either on my horses, scream "Look! We are eventers!!!" and crawl around on the field in a jog or lope and going AROUND the jumps....you'd all laugh at me just as I am laughing at these performances trying to imitate dressage.
If you want to change all the principles of a discipline to conform it to your breed, then start your own discipline and give it another name, but leave ours alone!!! I mean the reiners don't call their discipline dressage either, though while they have some similar moves, it's not exactly the same, is it? Dressage is more then just about vagely imitating some moves. First, the horse HAS TO be able to clearly and faultlessly walk, trot and canter. You can't gait while doing dressage, the moves are made for non-gaited horses. And second, it's a whole training system that is build on training blocks that the horse has to go through, similar like a jumper that has to be built up to jump the highest jumps. It's not about clearing the 5' fence once in a while, it has to be done correctly, without pulling rails, for a whole course, so many times in a show season in such an amount of speed! No horse can pull this off without extensive training from the ground up.
I just don't get it. We already have dressage, reining, eventing, distance, saddleseat, hunters, jumpers, barrels, cutting, etc. what's one more? If you'd just name your own, no one would complain.